The new single market ?.....the UK

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Re: The new single market ?.....the UK

04 Feb 2021 08:20 am:

It may be the same old tune but it doesn’t stop it from being true. We have the worst PM and government in living memory and you think we shouldn’t criticise them?
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Re: The new single market ?.....the UK

04 Feb 2021 09:16 am:

I wouldn't say he was the worst PM.. he's had a lot more to deal with than some of the others.. if he had his chance during a period of plain sailing, I think it would have been a lot different.. he would want to be there, for a start..

Hard to top Teresa May or Gordon Brown in the worst recent PM rankings, IMO. Lord North probably takes the all-time biscuit for 'losing america' on his watch, or Spencer Perceval for quelling riots by starving people and oppressed workers with draconian measures even for the time.. (he got shot for that). Fun times.
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Re: The new single market ?.....the UK

04 Feb 2021 09:22 am:

I'm not going to stop criticising where I believe it is valid and clapping where I think it's justified. Certainly if a government believes they can operate as they feel without risk of criticism, then we'd be in a very dangerous place. Now that is a country I would not like to live in very much.

I'd love to go and spend some time living in a warmer Mediterranean climate but sadly we can't do that any more as our rights have been taken away. The whole "if you don't like it here just go and live somewhere else" is a little puerile but doesn't surprise me.

I note that you don't look to argue against the Irish border point I raised. When you voted for it what did you want?
Last edited by lovejoy on 04 Feb 2021 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The new single market ?.....the UK

04 Feb 2021 11:33 am:

shedwebadmin wrote:I wouldn't say he was the worst PM.. he's had a lot more to deal with than some of the others.. if he had his chance during a period of plain sailing, I think it would have been a lot different.. he would want to be there, for a start..

Hard to top Teresa May or Gordon Brown in the worst recent PM rankings, IMO. Lord North probably takes the all-time biscuit for 'losing america' on his watch, or Spencer Perceval for quelling riots by starving people and oppressed workers with draconian measures even for the time.. (he got shot for that). Fun times.


Bit harsh on Brown there, SWA, he was a bit dour admittedly, but was widely praised for the measures taken after the world wide meltdown in 2008.
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Re: The new single market ?.....the UK

04 Feb 2021 12:25 pm:

shedwebadmin wrote:I wouldn't say he was the worst PM.. he's had a lot more to deal with than some of the others.. if he had his chance during a period of plain sailing, I think it would have been a lot different.. he would want to be there, for a start..

Hard to top Teresa May or Gordon Brown in the worst recent PM rankings, IMO. Lord North probably takes the all-time biscuit for 'losing america' on his watch, or Spencer Perceval for quelling riots by starving people and oppressed workers with draconian measures even for the time.. (he got shot for that). Fun times.

I think Brown gets an unncessary hard time with how he is percieved. A very intelligent man who doesn't not have the charisma that seems to be required these days. It's coming up to 11 years that the Tories have been in power and its been one disaster after another. The problem is that have a powerful right wing press on their side.
Last edited by Severus on 04 Feb 2021 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The new single market ?.....the UK

04 Feb 2021 12:34 pm:

Spot on Severus.
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Re: The new single market ?.....the UK

04 Feb 2021 12:54 pm:

For me, Brown's two biggest " sins " were 1. Robbing the Pension Funds " The chancellor, Gordon Brown, abolished substantial tax relief on dividends that pension funds received on their investments. The financial effect of this tax snatch was colossal. It was estimated that the loss of this tax relief had extracted, in total, over £118 billion of income by 2014. If this lost income had been even conservatively invested, pension funds may have benefited by an additional £230 billion ". That robbed us all of cash and signalled the end of Defined Pension schemes, leading to the dire ones people get nowadays. 2. The ramp up of PFI: Whilst it looked and sounded good, with shiny new hospitals and Schools, it's left a legacy of horrendous re-payments and ludicrous service charges, diverting much need cash from front line needs.
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Re: The new single market ?.....the UK

04 Feb 2021 13:14 pm:

The personality or visible lack of didn't bother me, with brown, there's plenty of argument for having dour leaders, who are better statesmen and administrators than personalities, as the EU seem to excel at finding. Although, wasn't it painful watching Teresa May trying to appear human?

He did well in the financial crash, having spent years before being part of the problem, only to ride to the rescue at the last minute. He only got the scrag end of blair's halcyon years, which left him holding the baby when people wanted to make their feelings known about Iraq etc.. dumped the gold, and inflated the size of the public sector to beyond the size of the private sector.. But far from the unelectable socialist nightmare they later had in corbyn.

Some of what brown has said in recent times about corbyn's mob, brexit, the economy etc has been quite shrewd to be fair. Maybe he was unlucky not to have got the IMF job..
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Re: The new single market ?.....the UK

04 Feb 2021 17:01 pm:

Wait, what do you mean about the public sector being inflated to greater than the private sector. That can’t be right.
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Re: The new single market ?.....the UK

04 Feb 2021 18:19 pm:

Apologies, Severus, I've just fact-checked myself and I misread/mis-used the rate of growth of public sector workers vs private sector workers against the total numbers employed..

And in fact, this kind of dis-proves it by the end of his tenure.. doh.
https://www.civilservant.org.uk/informa ... mbers.html
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