COVID- 19

Politicians - liars? Whatever next.

I think this is the nub of the matter. I hold my elected representatives to an expected level of honesty and integrity. That is a red line for me.

It's amazing how many Johnson supporters are able to laugh off the lies like you Steckers. We get the politicians we deserve, if they get away with lying, then that's what they'll do. And bullying.

RTS2, I think a big problem is the 2 million or so who fall between the gaps in the net, largely the self employed and those on zero hours contracts. They won't be getting furlough and existing schemes are inadequate to meet their needs with only about a third getting final approval, many give up trying to apply because it's such a clunky process and some don't try in the first place. For many it's a case of work or starve, what would you do in such circumstances? I'm not talking about the likes of those who totally disregard the rules such as the 400 wedding attendees in north London, yes, hit them hard and give it maximum publicity. I don't think the WW2 blackout is a good comparison, it didn't hurt you to do it, you could still have your lights on but 'blacked out' and if you ignored the rule it was easy to identify you - and there aren't any ration cards either, perhaps that's the answer!

An interesting thought ?.

IF the adult population were given reliable antibody tests before being given the vaccination, might it be ( that given most people will have some degree of immunity whilst carrying antibodies ) that it would be better to prioritise those who have no antibodies at all and then return to those who had them when tested and then vaccinate these people after ?. This way more people would have either natural or vaccine protection and simultaneously we would have a better picture of what % of the population were indeed carrying the antibodies and therefore possibly carrying some natural immunity to the worse effects of the virus.

Perhaps this method could be considered even if only for those who will be in the phase 2 plans under the age of 54.

It is clearly imperative to get the vaccinations rolled-out to as many people in the higher risk and age groups; whatever the science might suggest about having the vaccination whilst carrying the antibodies; albeit that perhaps it will only be time that tells science if not having the antibody test was the correct thing to do. We must assume that on the balance that it is best just to accept what science can tell us at this stage; but perhaps more research will enable a possible vaccination v non-vaccination approach for the lower risk groups IF and when that science emerges.

I accept that there would need to be a test that could detect the level of antibodies in each person as arguably someone who had a low level might still be vulnerable to another Covid-19 infection. Then I guess there would need to be a benchmark to establish who would be advised to have the vaccination even though they showed signs of antibodies.

The other argument against this approach might be the time and cost that it takes to get the antibody test results ?. Reliable fast-testing could be done when attending for the jab on a rotation basis and those who had the antibodies could make the decision. On the whole it wouldn't speed up the process; it might even slow it down, but for everyone who decides then not to have the vaccination it would free that vaccine up for someone else.; thus in theory meaning more people are confirmed as likely to have some degree of immunity.

Whilst there appears to be little evidence emerging yet as to whether there are dangers in having a vaccination if you are carrying the antibodies , there is no conclusive evidence to guarantee that there will be no longer-term dangers or indeed whether having the vaccination will benefit the majority of people who have already been exposed to the virus. It would be a reasonable assumption that it will help some.

I am not suggesting this should be done; but just asking the question; for discussion.

In the meantime it's fantastic that we have passed the 5 millions vaccination mark in the UK !!.

Great milestone for all those ( including our own tigerchef ) in the nationwide effort.

I don't think I laughed it off. And the example we were discussing wasn't a lie meant to deceive (a. it has quickly been corrected and b. what would be the motive? nothing to gain).

Re the truthfulness of all politicians - it's just a matter of fact. Some tell outright lies (ie Trump) but they're all are prone to bend the truth / exaggerate / manipulate statistics. So I'm not laughing it off - just recognising the reality. Anything else would be naive.

Stecks agree with a lot of that.

I do think that we currently do have some real spin merchants though at the moment.

It's not so much the lying that gets to me, as bad as it is. In some ways by lying they are setting themselves up when they are caught out; it's more the avoiding the question that is being asked them.

Sometimes they are asked three or four times and they still avoid answering it. Do they think we are all stupid ?.

I find it rude and arrogant and in my mind as elected MP's they have a duty to answer both honestly and yes , simply to answer the question.

Whilst this is a classical politician syndrome, it seems more prevalent in UK politics than ever.

Its the questions that annoy me and partly the reason why I often don't watch the briefing any more - or switch off when it comes to the press.

How many times have they been asked this week about relaxing the lockdown? It's a very subtle pressure to do so. And when they do - it will inevitably lead to rises and then criticism from the people that applied the pressure. Sometimes I wish they would just say - "we answered that question on Monday, please refer back to our answer then".

That said, I do recognise they dodge the questions - probably the first thing you are taught when training to be a politician. The master is Kellyanne Conway - not only avoided the question but provides an answer to a different question at length.

Bl00dy hell RTS/Andy you don't half bang-on like a complete know-all. Please let me know post-Lockdown if you're ever going to be in the Dursley vicinity or travelling on public transport so I can fully hide at home and avoid your relentless droning-on.

IF there is a Mrs RTS2 please pass on my condolences to her when you spare her some of your infinite wisdom.

My guess is most of your valuable time is spent advising SAGE/WHO/UN/NATO/all London cabbies + LB............

Mute have a re-read of this post and assess whether you think it is particularly helpful. It comes across as a little hurtful if you ask me and putting a smiley emoji at the end doesn't really diminish this. Fair play to RTS2 for taking it on this chin.

One option is to skim over the posts you don't like (in which case I doubt you'll read this), but when someone takes time to research something sniping back at them with playground insults is a little undermining in my opinion.

That said this is a free forum so post what you feel, a little insight in how you come across might be helpful.

Have re-read and have no issues with what I wrote. I believe RTS2 bangs on much too much in a very know-it-all manner. On basis it's a forum I am sure we will continue to operate in same manner - as will you with your regardless criticism of the democratically elected Govt.

GM: " I believe RTS2 bangs on much too much in a very know-it-all manner ". Pot, kettle.

With you having 6k posts and him having 5k posts I think you need to have a little look in your mirror ! Also please see the length of most of his postings.......War and Peace comes across as a quick read !