COVID- 19

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Re: COVID- 19

25 Jan 2021 16:54 pm:

lovejoy wrote:
Gloucester Mute wrote:What would you like to see happen to the Covid-deniers and anti-vaccers ??

One sentence answers. ;)


We live in a generally free society so they can choose not to have the vaccine but equally free are travel companies who might choose to only accept those with vaccines to be able to fly.


You could extend that to venues such as pubs, restaurants, entertainment venues etc. However, given that by the time things open up again most of us who so wish will have been vaccinated, the only ones likely to catch it will be exactly that group. Hoist by their own petard you might say!
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Re: COVID- 19

25 Jan 2021 16:59 pm:

TheOptimistSenior wrote:There are plenty of "leading medical people" saying that extending the interval between vaccinations to a maximum of 12 weeks, will confer the greatest benefit on the greatest number of people (see the JCVI article on the subject). Whether these advisors to the Government are right, may become apparent in time, but the members of the JCVI are very highly qualified people. They only want the best for people.
I suspect Pfizer can only advise on what their data and results show. There has been extrapolation by the Government experts and JCVI of all available data, to arrive at their conclusion. If Pfizer advised anything which their data did not indicate or support, they may be legally responsible for non-favourable outcomes.


Well put TOS, I read that they thought the 'sweet spot' for efficacy was 10-12 weeks. It might be guesswork to a certain degree but at least it's an educated guess.
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Re: COVID- 19

25 Jan 2021 17:06 pm:

Gloucester Mute wrote:What would you like to see happen to the Covid-deniers and anti-vaccers ??

One sentence answers. ;)

Is that as opposed to the 'anti-vac when it's too cold for me to go out' brigade.

You normally badger people incessantly when you object to something they say and request a comment, no answer yet to my question to you ;)
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Re: COVID- 19

25 Jan 2021 17:16 pm:

Laura Kunesburg - first question tonight - about how and when they will end lockdown. Is she dumb?
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Re: COVID- 19

25 Jan 2021 17:23 pm:

steckers wrote:Laura Kunesburg - first question tonight - about how and when they will end lockdown. Is she dumb?


likes to be sensationlist in my opinion
If the world was a really rational place, it would be men that would ride side saddle
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Re: COVID- 19

25 Jan 2021 18:19 pm:

RTS2 wrote:Steckers you raise a few good points that we have partially discussed already .

1). The tests are available privately in abundance. Agree to roll them out en mass would be a significant operation and Israel of course has a much smaller population than the UK. Having said this; if there was significant research and evidence that having the vaccination when carrying the antibodies was not advisable for medical reasons ( which has not been proved ) then testing prior to the vaccination would have to be done and a roll out of the antibody testing kits would have to be factored in. OK; that is not the case; but the capacity to manufacture these tests in the millions is entirely possible.


2) The tests are very simple and quick. usually results are available within 15 minutes. They take less than 2 minute to do. Whilst every minute is precious right now ; it could bring forward the testing of and vaccination of someone else who doesn't carry the antibodies by days or maybe weeks.

I'm not sure the tests are available "in abundance" (whatever that may mean).
My understanding is that (as with any vaccination), there is no evidence that further vaccination when antibodies are present may harm the individual. To advocate testing of everyone before they receive the vaccine is, in my view, untenable.
You say results of testing are available in 15 minutes. That, presumably, is the lateral flow test. This has a high false negative and false positive rate, so would not be useful. In my view, any testing before vaccination is unnecessary, too cumbersome and too expensive to be worth doing.
Last edited by TheOptimistSenior on 25 Jan 2021 18:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: COVID- 19

25 Jan 2021 18:27 pm:

steckers wrote:Lovejoy - that's dangerous though isn't it? I don't like the idea of being in a society where people are being asked to prove they have had a jab. I know this happens for other jabs for certain nations - but it just doesn't sit right.


20 years ago people would have said the same about smoking on flights, cinemas etc. "I not only demand the right to smoke, I demand the right to pollute you with my smoke".

Freedoms work both ways.
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Re: COVID- 19

25 Jan 2021 18:31 pm:

steckers wrote:Laura Kunesburg - first question tonight - about how and when they will end lockdown. Is she dumb?

Didn't see the programme, the 2nd question is the how long is a piece of string kind but the first is valid. What criteria will be used to assess whether restrictions can be relaxed. That of course requires some sort of forward planning so it was never going to get a proper answer (I assume it didn't!) because they make it up as they go along.
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Re: COVID- 19

25 Jan 2021 19:10 pm:

On good form Lucifer, as always :lol:

There is nothing wrong with the question per se, but it's been asked and answered repeatedly over the last few weeks. If they don't have anything new to ask, then let a 'lesser' media outlet pose a question.
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Re: COVID- 19

25 Jan 2021 19:11 pm:

TOS,

To answer your question about the use of the word "abundance" in relation to the antibody test, then if you read it again within the context I used it then you'll not it was in the context of the private sector . I was not referring to NHS supplies .

I disagree with your view about an antibody -assisted approach to the vaccination programme being untenable. We can by all means discuss this further.

I would suggest that such an approach could allow the U.K to reach herd immunity faster and in effect protect frontline key workers and the vulnerable much more quickly too .

For each vaccine we save by using antibody testing, there will be one more we can give to a higher-risk individual awaiting their appointment . I am not suggesting those not vaccinated as a result would ultimately be denied the vaccine and have also suggested possible exceptions if you read my recent posts.

I am sure you've read all the recent postings. As I have said I am having a second antibody test shortly via part of a joint Imperial College/ NHS research project which is establishing estimated numbers of people carrying Covid-19 antibodies. Are you suggesting their testing methodology is suspect too ?.

On your point about possible side effects on receiving the vaccine whilst carrying the antibodies; I have also indicated clearly prior to your mentioning it, the acknowledgement that there is (to date) no evidence supporting the theory that by receiving the vaccine with antibodies presents any risk of possible side effects. No one on the thread has or is suggesting that there is.

It would take considerable logistical and manufacturing operation; but it is entirely possible. We won't agree on this as we have disagreed on things before; but I respect your background and view.
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