COVID- 19

Re: COVID- 19

steckers 13 May 2020 14:20 pm said..

Optimist - I'm certainly not being critical of the group. I know nothing about them or the SAGE group itself.

What I would be interested in, is a forum where some of these 'conflicting' scientific theories are advocated. Rather than have everyone singing from the same hymn sheet.
Posts: 3237
steckers
Hall of Famer

Re: COVID- 19

lovejoy 13 May 2020 14:35 pm said..

Gloucester Mute wrote: EDITED
I am no scientist or epidemiology expert BUT my common-sense tells me that when you have a new virus doing the global rounds that the experts are learning all the time and their advice to the masses therefore changes and adapts according to the knowledge learnt. Some countries in the world acted very quickly and others less so. Some countries are returning from lockdown more quickly and others less so. Some are more cautious and others less so. Some countries leaders are more focussed on the economy, and some on health, and some on a balance of the two.

I just get rather fed up of those mainly unqualified people who constantly undermine, criticise and condemn our country and our leaders. Of course our leaders and Govt need to be held to account BUT there is a time for that - and that time is definitely not now. The focus now needs to be on saving every life possible and finding a way through the unknowns ie; testing/vaccine to return to some sort of normality.

#Pull together


There is a non sequitur between the government delaying lock down and "saving every life possible" in this post. Your point that in March our government being criticised for not lockdown early enough is unfair because there are no right or wrong answers, is valid. But their reasons for not locking down were to balance between various competing factors the economy, herd immunity strategy etc. But this decision, right or wrong was balancing the downside of higher risk of loss of life. I don't think any medical experts dispute this.

Overall we are going round in circles on this. Mute's view is we should all pull together and not criticise the government and do a review of the decision making in the future presumably when we are through this to see how we did. This would help our response to future outbreaks.

I think we should look to learn from our mistakes live, to help our response to THIS outbreak. Fundamentally we are different camps. Isn't it a bit like playing a rugby game a constantly kicking for touch but losing the line outs. Do you continue this plan and wait for the post match analysis or do you make the onfield calls to adjust the strategy to a more running game? I know which one improves chances of winning the current game.
Posts: 824
lovejoy
On the board

Re: COVID- 19

theoptimist 13 May 2020 16:25 pm said..

I guess the issue with these SAGE is does they knows their onions or do they need to get stuffed?...

Taxi...
Posts: 687
theoptimist
Hero in the making

Re: COVID- 19

Gloucester Mute 13 May 2020 16:27 pm said..

[quote="TheOptimistSenior"]Gloucester Mute, that must be one of the most unpleasant posts for a long time.
You make assertions about all the members of the group and Prof. Pollock and Sir David King in particular, which might be construed as defamatory. Do you have evidence to support your views?

Unpleasant ?? Criticism from how I observed them on the 1 hour recording.

Haven't witnessed the official SAGE group (about 50-strong I believe) going public as this apparently self-appointed bunch under Sir David King have done so. I am sure that if these learned individuals were trying to "pull together" with those who've replaced them officially and if they wanted to achieve the very best solutions for Britain - rather than just publicly snipe and criticise - they would be picking the phone up to their scientific chums and making their scientific arguments to them.

To me they seem to crave the spotlight and undermine those whom have replaced them a little too much !!
Nothing wrong with free speech or having an opinion - as long as it matches mine !!
Posts: 2125  Location: Dursley - At the heart of the County
Gloucester Mute
Hall of Famer

Re: COVID- 19

TheOptimistSenior 13 May 2020 16:38 pm said..

theoptimist wrote:I guess the issue with these SAGE is does they knows their onions or do they need to get stuffed?...

Taxi...


Very good!!
Posts: 525
TheOptimistSenior
Hero in the making

Re: COVID- 19

TheOptimistSenior 13 May 2020 16:52 pm said..

Gloucester Mute wrote:
TheOptimistSenior wrote:Gloucester Mute, that must be one of the most unpleasant posts for a long
Unpleasant ?? Criticism from how I observed them on the 1 hour recording.

Haven't witnessed the official SAGE group (about 50-strong I believe) going public as this apparently self-appointed bunch under Sir David King have done so. I am sure that if these learned individuals were trying to "pull together" with those who've replaced them officially and if they wanted to achieve the very best solutions for Britain - rather than just publicly snipe and criticise - they would be picking the phone up to their scientific chums and making their scientific arguments to them.

To me they seem to crave the spotlight and undermine those whom have replaced them a little too much !!


GM, the post before the one that I commented on, made a lot of sense and was one with which I agreed, in part.
However, your latter post contained assertions which I suspect you are totally unable to support with objective evidence. Drawing the conclusions you appear to do from watching the video is, in my opinion, absurd.
Read the report and then tell me that it is not constructive. Yes, it is also critical but that is what scientific argument is about. These are scientists discussing scientific issues where there are marked differences of opinion, in public. Surely that must be a good thing and does not mean they are not pulling together.
Ultimately, the Government will dictate strategy in the light of ALL evidence. As others have said, transparency can only be a good thing.
Posts: 525
TheOptimistSenior
Hero in the making

Re: COVID- 19

TheOptimistSenior 13 May 2020 17:05 pm said..

steckers wrote:Optimist - I'm certainly not being critical of the group. I know nothing about them or the SAGE group itself.

What I would be interested in, is a forum where some of these 'conflicting' scientific theories are advocated. Rather than have everyone singing from the same hymn sheet.


Didn't see your comment as critical, Steckers.
I agree that it would be hugely beneficial for all the scientific viewpoints to be aired in a common forum. Perhaps they are, but we don't know because SAGE does not publish its deliberations. If they were, we might understand how the Independent Group's views were dealt with, if at all!
Posts: 525
TheOptimistSenior
Hero in the making

Re: COVID- 19

SirHenry 13 May 2020 17:58 pm said..

For all we know the advice of SAGE has been ignored and /or modified by Demonic Cummings to satisfy his ulterior motives and the SAGE scientists are keeping quiet because they are more interested in keeping their jobs and associated lucrative salaries.

Alt SAGE is therefore more reliable because they have no such motive and are prepared to publish their findings.


[That's the sort of nonsense you get to when you start to use questioning motives as a basis of argument]
The frightening thing is not dying, the frightening thing is not living
Posts: 1144
SirHenry
Hall of Famer

Re: COVID- 19

The Vic 13 May 2020 19:02 pm said..

It has been well reported that there has been strong disagreement in SAGE. Ultimately minister have to make the final decision on public health. One of the areas of disagreement has been on social distancing. So the current advice is 2m however, the studies done on it were done up to 1m -1.5m and indoors only. I'm not saying any is right or wrong but I'm highlighting it as an area where SAGE has had strong discussion. While advisors and scientists can discuss this type of thing, ministers have to form the public health policy
Posts: 2487
The Vic
Hall of Famer

Re: COVID- 19

Russglos 13 May 2020 19:12 pm said..

IMG_20200513_030555.jpg
Posts: 579
Russglos
Hero in the making
PreviousNext

Return to COVID-19 Support