O/T Bath v Sarries

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Re: O/T Bath v Sarries

30 Nov 2019 19:22 pm:

Oxford Glaws wrote:
tigerchef wrote:I see on Twitter that Bath welcomed NW with open arms and 10 tickets for his family.

Excellent to see solidarity across the Premiership.


Were they for the scaffolding?


I don't think breaking the salary cap is a hanging offence OG, think you are being a bit OTT there!
Hero in the making
Posts: 515

Re: O/T Bath v Sarries

30 Nov 2019 19:56 pm:

Glen Sannox wrote:Interesting

I haven't seen any signs over the years that what you perceive as arrogance has had any negative effect. Their 'Wolfpack' celebrations, which some dislike, is now being copied by other teams...celebrating small victories.

I think a bit of arrogance in elite sport is no bad thing


I rather liked the understated shake of the hand today by Saints players when someone scored. Took me back to my playing days.
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Re: O/T Bath v Sarries

30 Nov 2019 20:24 pm:

tigerchef wrote:
Oxford Glaws wrote:
tigerchef wrote:I see on Twitter that Bath welcomed NW with open arms and 10 tickets for his family.

Excellent to see solidarity across the Premiership.


Were they for the scaffolding?


I don't think breaking the salary cap is a hanging offence OG, think you are being a bit OTT there!


Well had he succeeded in buying Glaws , I am sure Altrad would have been happy to have supplied it. ;) .......and who knows even some free tickets for some people too. Not Mutey though; he's a naughty boy. ;) ( teasing )
Senior squad member
Posts: 180

Re: O/T Bath v Sarries

01 Dec 2019 08:09 am:

In my customary role as a Bath supporting interloper in these pages I would just make a couple of observations.

First of all, how might Bath have fared with even a semi representative side on the field?

Watson, Joseph, Cokanasiga, Willison, Faletau, Ewels, Thomas, Catt, Ellis and Mercer all missing. Burns not fit enough to do anything but warm the bench as an emergency option for the last 10 minutes. Louw out of position at 8. Any team would struggle against any premiership side with this rate of attrition, but for Bath it has been constant for the last three or four years and it is the same names continually missing. Something badly wrong there.

On the matter of Sarries I actually feel significantly sorry for Nigel Wray. The premium club competition is the European Cup. He has made a long-term investment in the club and has changed it into a business and an empire.

He wants to compete at the top level of club rugby. The salary cap guarantees that this is not possible. Have a look at how English clubs have fared in Europe for the last 20 years. The only ones who have been successful have all been subjected to the same suggestions of cheating the cap. Clubs who palpably abide by it generally don’t get out of their pools.

I genuinely think this matter could escalate to a point where Premiership rugby is forced to drop the cap or face a breakaway by those clubs who see it as an arbitrary barrier to success.
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Re: O/T Bath v Sarries

01 Dec 2019 08:36 am:

Malco wrote:In my customary role as a Bath supporting interloper in these pages I would just make a couple of observations.

First of all, how might Bath have fared with even a semi representative side on the field?

Watson, Joseph, Cokanasiga, Willison, Faletau, Ewels, Thomas, Catt, Ellis and Mercer all missing. Burns not fit enough to do anything but warm the bench as an emergency option for the last 10 minutes. Louw out of position at 8. Any team would struggle against any premiership side with this rate of attrition, but for Bath it has been constant for the last three or four years and it is the same names continually missing. Something badly wrong there.

On the matter of Sarries I actually feel significantly sorry for Nigel Wray. The premium club competition is the European Cup. He has made a long-term investment in the club and has changed it into a business and an empire.

He wants to compete at the top level of club rugby. The salary cap guarantees that this is not possible. Have a look at how English clubs have fared in Europe for the last 20 years. The only ones who have been successful have all been subjected to the same suggestions of cheating the cap. Clubs who palpably abide by it generally don’t get out of their pools.

I genuinely think this matter could escalate to a point where Premiership rugby is forced to drop the cap or face a breakaway by those clubs who see it as an arbitrary barrier to success.


Businesses are built to grow and make profit, Sarries are significantly in debt, Sarries are far from an empire, they are a rich mans play thing. I can’t feel sorry for cheats when they a detrimental to the game.

Like it or not rugby isn’t that big and I can’t see it appealing to the masses, the cap is there to protect, without it more clubs will go bust and the gap between top and bottom will only get bigger.
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Re: O/T Bath v Sarries

01 Dec 2019 08:44 am:

Malco ... the big problem is that only 1 of our Premiership clubs makes a profit - Exeter.

I understand that the premiership is at a disadvantage, financially, to the likes of the French clubs and the Irish provinces when it comes to European rugby. We don't have club stadia owned by municipalities as in France or backed by huge multinationals such as Michelin or Peugeot. We need to find a much better financial model if our game is to thrive and flourish.

The likes of Bath, Bristol, Harlequins, Saracens and Wasps are, annually, bailed out by wealthy backers. This is completely unsustainable. God help those clubs if their backer(s) called in their "loans".

Each of our clubs received a £13.5M windfall from CVC this Spring. The money is supposedly earmarked for infrastructure spending. I suspect that some players and their agents have got their eyes on some of that money ...

Rugby union is at a financial crossroads. I don't think that London Welsh will be the last premiership club to go bust.

Nigel Wray knew that he needed a bigger squad and a higher spend to compete in Europe. He chose to seek ways, outside of the rules, to win.
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Re: O/T Bath v Sarries

01 Dec 2019 09:44 am:

I was out on Friday night but recorded the game (series record), however I have deleted it without watching which is very unusual for me. A soft pitch at the Rec and a slug and kick fest just doesn't appeal. My thoughts on Sarries have moved over the years and in better conditions they are a decent team to watch (far better than Exeter) but the salary cap issues have pushed them way back down my likey list.Too many clubs are rich people's play things and Wray must be worried looking at Bristol. Not sure what the answer is but for now the cap needs to stay and be adhered to or else union could do a league!
Ken Smith (once upon a time Mr Realistic)
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Posts: 180

Re: O/T Bath v Sarries

01 Dec 2019 12:41 pm:

Ken Burney wrote:Malco ... the big problem is that only 1 of our Premiership clubs makes a profit - Exeter.

I understand that the premiership is at a disadvantage, financially, to the likes of the French clubs and the Irish provinces when it comes to European rugby. We don't have club stadia owned by municipalities as in France or backed by huge multinationals such as Michelin or Peugeot. We need to find a much better financial model if our game is to thrive and flourish.

The likes of Bath, Bristol, Harlequins, Saracens and Wasps are, annually, bailed out by wealthy backers. This is completely unsustainable. God help those clubs if their backer(s) called in their "loans".

Each of our clubs received a £13.5M windfall from CVC this Spring. The money is supposedly earmarked for infrastructure spending. I suspect that some players and their agents have got their eyes on some of that money ...

Rugby union is at a financial crossroads. I don't think that London Welsh will be the last premiership club to go bust.

Nigel Wray knew that he needed a bigger squad and a higher spend to compete in Europe. He chose to seek ways, outside of the rules, to win.


Ken I’m not arguing with you but on the substantive point, Exeter may be the only club to make a profit but how have they fared in the European Cup?

The entire structure of English rugby is wrong and is unsustainable. The fact that only one club makes a profit and that the only way for an English club to win the European Cup is to break the rules of the domestic competition tells you everything you need to know.

I’m afraid the only way to make English rugby financially sustainable is to come to the same conclusion that every other country has come to. You have to have a regional structure and international competition.

You and I might not relish the idea of Bath, Bristol and Exeter becoming the Western Wurzels and Gloucester, Worcester and Wasps the West Midlands Brummies, playing against the Welsh, Scottish and Irish regions but I’m afraid that I can’t see any other way of making it financially sustainable.
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Re: O/T Bath v Sarries

01 Dec 2019 13:15 pm:

Malco wrote:
Ken Burney wrote:Malco ... the big problem is that only 1 of our Premiership clubs makes a profit - Exeter.

I understand that the premiership is at a disadvantage, financially, to the likes of the French clubs and the Irish provinces when it comes to European rugby. We don't have club stadia owned by municipalities as in France or backed by huge multinationals such as Michelin or Peugeot. We need to find a much better financial model if our game is to thrive and flourish.

The likes of Bath, Bristol, Harlequins, Saracens and Wasps are, annually, bailed out by wealthy backers. This is completely unsustainable. God help those clubs if their backer(s) called in their "loans".

Each of our clubs received a £13.5M windfall from CVC this Spring. The money is supposedly earmarked for infrastructure spending. I suspect that some players and their agents have got their eyes on some of that money ...

Rugby union is at a financial crossroads. I don't think that London Welsh will be the last premiership club to go bust.

Nigel Wray knew that he needed a bigger squad and a higher spend to compete in Europe. He chose to seek ways, outside of the rules, to win.


Ken I’m not arguing with you but on the substantive point, Exeter may be the only club to make a profit but how have they fared in the European Cup?

The entire structure of English rugby is wrong and is unsustainable. The fact that only one club makes a profit and that the only way for an English club to win the European Cup is to break the rules of the domestic competition tells you everything you need to know.

I’m afraid the only way to make English rugby financially sustainable is to come to the same conclusion that every other country has come to. You have to have a regional structure and international competition.

You and I might not relish the idea of Bath, Bristol and Exeter becoming the Western Wurzels and Gloucester, Worcester and Wasps the West Midlands Brummies, playing against the Welsh, Scottish and Irish regions but I’m afraid that I can’t see any other way of making it financially sustainable.


Brummies ??? ; my friend ) !! :evil:
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Re: O/T Bath v Sarries

01 Dec 2019 14:25 pm:

Poppycock! We may well get to the situation where there is enough coming in from media rights and sponsorship, that bums on seats no longer matters. The Premiership is a great 'product' and I don't see any likely decline in investors' interest in it.

Regionalisation went well in Wales, didn't it!

BTW we already have a Brummie team, Worcester
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