Luds, Reid and the 7 shirt

Re: Luds, Reid and the 7 shirt

King Prawn Bhuna 15 Sep 2020 13:35 pm said..

Ludlow is as much an openside as Robshaw under EJ. Reid is showing to be a genuine 7, strong upper body, faster, less of a penalty magnet and more 'in your face'.

I prefer him at 7 as a starter...Ludlow will cover more off the bench.... but what do we know?
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Re: Luds, Reid and the 7 shirt

Ken Burney 15 Sep 2020 13:45 pm said..

Nuts ... Ludlow's work rate is excellent and he is a good, all-round player. However, for me, he is not enough of a leader, as yet, to be captain. Maybe, like Tom Savage before him, he was made captain too soon?

I would have Heinz, when fit, as captain. In the meantime - Slater.
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Re: Luds, Reid and the 7 shirt

Chris Jones 15 Sep 2020 14:28 pm said..

KB - Much as I admire Slater, the problem here is that with Alemanno ( very impressive debut) now available he won’t always be first or second choice. I would prefer Garvey (please give him a longer term contract!!) and don’t forget we may soon have have Alex Craig back from in injury
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Re: Luds, Reid and the 7 shirt

VV 15 Sep 2020 14:48 pm said..

Ludlow, a great club man which every squad needs. He is an effective lineout operator, sound tackler (although not necessarily big hits), and has an engine, but then isn't (for me) stand out in any other aspects you'd look for in a 7 (or 6) such as ball carrying, link play, getting to and clearing breakdowns or acting as a jackal. Stats apparently prove he isn't a penalty magnet but he does have a propensity for giving away dull ones. Impossible to gauge leadership from the armchair (and before anyone else says it, all these judgements clearly lack the insight coaches will gain from training and their own intensive stats). In summary, a good squad man, happy when he re-signed, but not a first choice 7 for me if we are truly targeting top 4 over the next few seasons.
Reid on the otherhand, mostly from cameos, looks like a more natural 7: very comfortable when handling the ball (and kicking), offering more in support play, robust in tackling (& carrying) and is always looking for opportunities to jackal. Can he do that consistently for 80 mins? He went reasonably well against Exeter but we won't really know unless he gets a run of games.
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Re: Luds, Reid and the 7 shirt

Still Realistic 15 Sep 2020 14:52 pm said..

At the risk of repeating myself, people get too hung up on the number of the shirt and what that shirt used to mean 20 or 30 years ago. Agree that we should adopt a "horses for courses" approach and that Ludlow is a 6.5 like robshaw was but again I state that the key is to balance the back row. There may be occasions where Reid and Ludlow could both play in the same team as they did towards the end of last nights game or neither of them could play. I have seen Jake play in the 7 shirt and there is no way he can be described as a traditional 7 is there?
Another key to the back row is the strength of the front 5. For too many years we have had to bulk up our back row simply to try an hold our own in the scrum. If GS gets the tight 5 right (a new monster prop please) then he will have a freer hand at back row selections and like EJ play 2 players like Underhill & Curry - one a defensive, tackling player and the other a turnover specialist.
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Re: Luds, Reid and the 7 shirt

Nuts 16 Sep 2020 11:16 am said..

Thanks Ken.
It depends on what we think we need from a Captain, I guess. Perhaps if the game plan had gone, err to plan, Luds would be seen as better suited to the job.

I guess he is selected for what he does bring, incl in my opinion setting the tone for the forwards (no backward steps). Maybe he (& the rest of the squad) needs work on what to do when we put ourselves under pressure.

I agree that Willi and Ed Slater look to be experienced, calm heads (but even the latter cost us a silly yellow + untimely injury). With all the talk about leaders, I don't see why this wasn't done on the pitch on Monday, where Garvey seemed to be providing a bit of chat to the group.

We really need a few options as player rotation is so important now.
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Re: Luds, Reid and the 7 shirt

westglos 16 Sep 2020 11:52 am said..

I am all for specialists in each position. Reid is a specialist 7. Ludlow not.
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Re: Luds, Reid and the 7 shirt

madders 16 Sep 2020 12:03 pm said..

My tuppence worth. Reid,Ackermann and Polledri make big hits, great carries and yards.
I'm sure Ludlow is excellent but he doesn't.
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Re: Luds, Reid and the 7 shirt

jeppy89 16 Sep 2020 14:30 pm said..

Camel wrote:Interesting topic.

He isn't the penalty machine some keep saying he is, the stats just don't back that up. He's brilliant in the lineout, particularly at stealing opposition ball. His workrate is outstanding.

You can prove anything with stats.

What they won’t tell you is the nature of his penalties how they are nearly always daft and certainly avoidable ie lying on the wrong side rather than a jackal not awarded etc.

And as captain his timing on said penalties is even worse.

Also it’s in isolation and I don’t have the ruck figures so must be taken with a big pinch of salt but on Monday he carried 3 times and made 5 tackles. I wouldn’t rush to call that an outstanding work rate.
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Re: Luds, Reid and the 7 shirt

Nobbler23 16 Sep 2020 15:33 pm said..

I really don't get this daft penalties thing, I don't see Lewis giving away penalties which are any different from anyone else either at our club or any other.
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