Eng v Ire

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Re: Eng v Ire

19 Nov 2020 15:47 pm:

Lovejoy, of the top tier nations only Arg & Sth Africa don't have players qualified through residency.

I saw a stat this last week, showing that in the current squads, Scotland has 14 players not born in Scotland in their squad, Wales & Eng were something like 6 or 8, can't remember now.
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Re: Eng v Ire

19 Nov 2020 16:30 pm:

Lewi7 wrote:Lovejoy, of the top tier nations only Arg & Sth Africa don't have players qualified through residency.

I saw a stat this last week, showing that in the current squads, Scotland has 14 players not born in Scotland in their squad, Wales & Eng were something like 6 or 8, can't remember now.

Be interesting to know about England as they've certainly had their fair share of "imports" over the years, but in the latest squad, I'm not sure who else apart from the Vunipolas weren't born in England, and they both went to school in the country so didn't come over as professional players.
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Re: Eng v Ire

19 Nov 2020 16:46 pm:

Underhill - born in Ohio I believe
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Re: Eng v Ire

19 Nov 2020 16:46 pm:

Staggy, Sam Underhill, Joe Cokanasiga and Dave Ribbans, : not sure how he got selected (criteria not worth)

Scotland, 19 from 36 born abroad
Wales, 10 from 40...
Ireland, 9 from 34 ...
Last edited by stuartjames on 19 Nov 2020 16:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Eng v Ire

19 Nov 2020 16:53 pm:

This is where the whole debate gets silly.
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Re: Eng v Ire

19 Nov 2020 17:04 pm:

It's not so much the debate Andy, but more to do with how some countries work the system. But can you blame EJ, Gregor, Wayne P, Farrell, Galthie for selecting players that pass the current rules ? I can't, they've got a job to do.

Players like North, Underhill, Sharples etc born outside of their Country due to family & work reasons - totally acceptable in my view with eligibility through parents.
Grandparents could be argued either way.
Residential qualification - the change has been made (& Eng have benefitted more than most on this front), where the player doesn't have any other form or eligibility, from 3 to 5 years - I just wonder if this will lead more countries to set up academies elsewhere and harvest players at an even younger age, thinking specifically of the Pacific Islands.
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Re: Eng v Ire

19 Nov 2020 18:24 pm:

I'm not sure it really matters where you were born anymore. There are lots of reasons to be born in far off places due to holidays, family, work, etc. What defines your nationality at heart is where you grow up ( those keys years of 5 - 16) . That to me is where your emotive nationhood is set.
On that basis I think all the Eng team pass the mark . Clearly the Vunipolas had most but not all of their schooling here so are a bit grey. I think it is a shame for those who miss out to players from other countries where this happens. Lewi is right it is not the coaches fault or probably the players if they "play to the rules" . Just another example of mupetry from WR. Why on earth Grannies are still in the equation I have no idea, utter madness.
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Re: Eng v Ire

19 Nov 2020 19:05 pm:

Nick, CMGC, - I agree with you both.

I don’t blame international coaches. Their jobs depend on success so of course they’re going to pick anybody they think may give them an edge. World Rugby (the enduring shambles that is!) are at fault.

Place of birth is IMO irrelevant. I was born in Singapore because my dad was in the forces. I moved back here at 6 months. I’m ‘British!’ That part (for me) is simple. Where it gets complicated is my Dad was a Scot, and 3 of my grandparents were Scots. So am I Scots or English? I have lived my whole life in England and consider myself English. However another person with my background may quite legitimately consider themselves Scottish.

My point is it’s not straightforward although I do believe some common sense needs to be applied. Our very own fullback for example was a New Zealander, then an Aussie and now English. WTF???? :shock:
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Re: Eng v Ire

19 Nov 2020 19:11 pm:

Totally agree Leb.
I have no issue with Vunipolas playing for England etc
I have issues with likes of Nathan Hughes, willi Heinz etc and some of the Springjocks are just ridiculous.
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Re: Eng v Ire

19 Nov 2020 19:37 pm:

Don't forget the policewoman basher, Manu Overboard.
I’ve only ever been wrong once; l thought l was wrong, but l was wrong!
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