Collapsing the maul

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Collapsing the maul

22 Nov 2020 10:41 am:

I asked this question on the OGT...Do any of a ref’s persuasion have an informed answer that’s supported by relevant knowledge?

When a maul is set up from a line out in the 22, I’d estimate that in 80-90% of the instances when the attack get forward momentum the end result of a collapse is a penalty.

When a maul is set up following a choke tackle, I’ve only ever seen a turnover even when the maul is seemingly collapsed by a member of the defence. Yesterday Billy T was choke tackled as he tried to bust into the Leicester 22. He was supported by a fair few glos players and had good forward momentum (albeit he was wrestling for the ball with a Tiger’s player). It seemed to me that a Tiger then brought the maul to the floor.

Is there a reason why it wasn’t (and never is) a penalty in this case? As far as I can tell once the ref calls maul it’s a maul, regardless of the set-up, and that whether the defence are on the ball or not is irrelevant if they then collapse it?
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Re: Collapsing the maul

22 Nov 2020 10:55 am:

This anomaly has always existed. Just one of the qwerks of rugby.
I’ve only ever been wrong once; l thought l was wrong, but l was wrong!
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Re: Collapsing the maul

22 Nov 2020 10:56 am:

So no formal line in a rule somewhere?

It just doesn’t make sense to me.
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Re: Collapsing the maul

22 Nov 2020 10:58 am:

I would say the one big difference is that on a choke tackle a defender is normally on the ball/the player with the ball. Lineout mauls when an opposition player gets on the ball that collapse tend to be scrums as well. Not sure why/if it should be legal though.
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Re: Collapsing the maul

22 Nov 2020 10:59 am:

As an addition.
Every player now seems to challenge ref about everything.
Refs are trying to be so forensic about all other laws why do they do not say just say go away. I will only speak to Captain.
If we are not careful we will end up having postal ballots, and appeal result by going to TMO.
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Re: Collapsing the maul

22 Nov 2020 11:06 am:

One is moving ie; a driving maul AND the other is static ie; a choke-tackle.

I suspect in y'day's case BT had come to a halt ie; the maul was held-up AND the Leicester player didn't collapse it. If the maul had stopped and Leicester tackled him ie; brought the maul down Leicester would have been penalised.

Collapsing a driving-maul and/or static maul is very dangerous.
Nothing wrong with free speech or having an opinion - as long as it matches mine !!
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Re: Collapsing the maul

22 Nov 2020 11:20 am:

In my day ( a long time ago) referees awarded penalties against back chat, or moved you back 10 yards, l don’t understand why they’ve stopped using this sanction.
It was drummed into us from early days that only footballers continually moan and appeal. Rugby players do not.
I’ve only ever been wrong once; l thought l was wrong, but l was wrong!
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Re: Collapsing the maul

22 Nov 2020 11:26 am:

Based on your normally ridiculous SW postings I bet you got marched back a fair few times Madders !! ;)

I am hoping that I gave you the marching orders !! Who did you play for and when ??
Nothing wrong with free speech or having an opinion - as long as it matches mine !!
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Re: Collapsing the maul

22 Nov 2020 12:00 pm:

Also the choked tackled player will often be making as much effort to get to floor or knee on floor so often a collapse is just a consequence.
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Re: Collapsing the maul

22 Nov 2020 12:45 pm:

You can take the ball carrier to ground in any maul, this is what normally happens in a choke tackle, you cannot take non-ball carriers to ground, this is what happens in most driven lineouts.
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