Quins V Glos OGT

Re: Quins V Glos OGT

thread killer 12 Sep 2017 14:12 pm said..

Problem is Heinz instists on putting in crappy box kicks which lead to a lot of tries and territory for the opposition. Daft kick against Exeter, daft kicks against Quins
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Re: Quins V Glos OGT

Lebowski 12 Sep 2017 15:57 pm said..

hairyglaws wrote:They most certainly do, not really the point though.
How many clubs lose youngs uns which immediately go into other clubs starting teams?
The hard part is finding then developing the guys.
We should have had the Robson/Bert combo for years
Losing one is careless both..mmm..


Who are all these young stars you are on about? Freddie Burns left because......... oh seriously I'm not going there - been done to death! If you aren't prepared to accept that there was nothing the club could do then that is your prerogative. Also, as already stated, we poached him from Bath, so it was they who 'lost' him!

If you look at other clubs you will find that many lose far, far more than we do. Wuss, Irish, Newcastle, Sale etc have been absolutely plundered in recent years (including by us!) and of international standard players. Clubs with less success and less money will always get plundered by the 'bigger' teams - it happens in every sport. Given our lack of success I think it is amazing we have lost so few players, unless you can actually name a load I'm unaware of!

How about players such as Twelvetrees and Williams - young players who Leicester did not want to lose! And Leicester are the biggest club in the country!
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Re: Quins V Glos OGT

hairyglaws 12 Sep 2017 16:05 pm said..

Yep its just me, they keep leaving and we ain't successful, no worries
Plus Johnny now, same for when Ross goes as well is it?
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Re: Quins V Glos OGT

Gb83 12 Sep 2017 16:28 pm said..

Balmain, Williams, Atkinson and Morgan not fit for Saturday
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Re: Quins V Glos OGT

hairyglaws 12 Sep 2017 16:32 pm said..

You ain't upsetting me, its a bloody forum, hardly the place for upset, just views n interpretations etc
Can't say I ain't bemused though..

What I'm saying, is which successful clubs keep losing their starters/best players?
We have been suffering for years. Pleased by coaching appointment, but losing our best players ain't gonna help, anyone. Not fair on Ackermann at all.
Coulda versus current:
Robson v Heinz
Bert v any 10 since
Johnny v current wingers
Ross v other backrow
etc etc

Its a constant dilution and I don't think a co-incidence we are now mediocre.
As said above, hardly fair on the coaching setup having to work in that environment either.

The model has to be Sarries. Regular champions etc, remind me how many of Farrell, Itoje, Kruis, Vunipolas,Britz, Barrit, Goode, yawn yawn they lose every season? Only one I can think of is Ashton.
Rest been there for a long time.
If it was glaws, half/most would have gone by now
Surely to be successful you have to keep your best/better players? Or to put it another way, why are the leavers able to walk straight into starting paces?
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Re: Quins V Glos OGT

robs1 12 Sep 2017 16:49 pm said..

thread killer wrote:Problem is Heinz instists on putting in crappy box kicks which lead to a lot of tries and territory for the opposition. Daft kick against Exeter, daft kicks against Quins


I'm not sure it was a daft kick against ex, from where I saw it and on telly it looked like it was charged down
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Re: Quins V Glos OGT

Gb83 12 Sep 2017 16:59 pm said..

hairyglaws wrote:You ain't upsetting me, its a bloody forum, hardly the place for upset, just views n interpretations etc
Can't say I ain't bemused though..

What I'm saying, is which successful clubs keep losing their starters/best players?
We have been suffering for years. Pleased by coaching appointment, but losing our best players ain't gonna help, anyone. Not fair on Ackermann at all.
Coulda versus current:
Robson v Heinz
Bert v any 10 since
Johnny v current wingers
Ross v other backrow
etc etc

Its a constant dilution and I don't think a co-incidence we are now mediocre.
As said above, hardly fair on the coaching setup having to work in that environment either.

The model has to be Sarries. Regular champions etc, remind me how many of Farrell, Itoje, Kruis, Vunipolas,Britz, Barrit, Goode, yawn yawn they lose every season? Only one I can think of is Ashton.
Rest been there for a long time.
If it was glaws, half/most would have gone by now
Surely to be successful you have to keep your best/better players? Or to put it another way, why are the leavers able to walk straight into starting paces?


The model has to be Sarries? Are you going to provide the millions to support that?

Robson wasn't that great at Gloucester and Burns has gone backwards, he was an England international not any more, Williams will be a better player. Ross hasn't left yet unless I've missed it, the driver for him leaving is his Welsh career and there isn't much we can do about that.

The reason we are mediocre is because we failed to capitalise when competed at the top and since we've dropped out of the top 6 we haven't been able to compete financially because it's simply not possible without big money being pumped in and the top players want European rugby not the little boys cups.
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Re: Quins V Glos OGT

Lebowski 12 Sep 2017 17:02 pm said..

Okay fine. I don't want an argument but I will try and put my perspective, again!

You say we keep losing our starters/best players yet you have named two. Burns and May. Three if you include Robson, but he left because we had an international ahead of him. I have asked you who all these young stars we keep losing are and you still haven't named them. Three players over several years is not an exodus in my book.

I accept that if we were the best team in Europe, like Saracens, we wouldn't lose players, but we aren't! Saracens became the best team largely because they had more money than anyone else - money is a significant issue! Had Altrad come on board would we have lost May? Nobody knows but I suspect not. We don't have the money that Saracens, Bath and Wasps have. You can blame the club for not being as rich as those others - because that is the bottom line - but I won't.

Other clubs have lost loads of young stars. Loads! As I said, Irish, Sale, Wuss, Newks etc. But much more successful clubs too. Where did Sarries get the Vunipolas from? Other teams. Billy they took from Wasps! Ashton they took from Saints. Big clubs but they couldn't compete with Sarries' cheque book. Same as Saints couldn't compete with Montpellier (Picamoles). Bath, pre Craig, couldn't keep the likes of Borthwick and Stevens - went to Sarries! Bath, even with Craig's billions, couldn't keep George Ford!

Sarries for their part probably won't be able to keep all the stars you have listed. Mark McCall has been whinging about it very recently! Leicester have lost loads of players - young stars too! Two I have named we have poached!

So I completely disagree with your claim about all the young players we have lost. I have asked you to name them and you can't! You say Sarries are the model - of course they are. Do you not think the fact that they have a completely unsustainable business model (without billionaire benefactors) has anything to do with this? You seem to be criticising Gloucester for not being able to operate at a massive loss as Sarries do. You may be bemused but I am utterly bemused at that!
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Re: Quins V Glos OGT

Glen Sannox 12 Sep 2017 17:07 pm said..

spot on
Cherchez la truffe
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Re: Quins V Glos OGT

Baz 12 Sep 2017 17:22 pm said..

Jonny left for 'personal issues' That could be anything? It could include the ambition of the club but then again it could be for 101 other reasons. Maybe he didn't like someone we signed or maybe Jonny's dog couldn't settle in Gloucestershire, he's a one off, Jonny? Could be anything. People move for all sorts of reasons but I'm sure if someone set up a leavers (other than no contract offer) Gloucester would actually come out pretty well? Nicky Robinson is a good example of players wanting to stay, he offered to take a pay cut to try and get a new deal.
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