South Africa v England part II

Re: South Africa v England part II

Sky blue 16 Jun 2018 19:57 pm said..

All in my view...Robson's great strength is the pace he brings in attack. He's one of the best with ball in hand. I don't believe that his passing (accuracy) is up to international standard and that is a fundamental skill at 9 at this level. Despite what Beddis thinks Youngs and Care are ahead of him in this regard. His kicking is ok - but not outstanding.

Regarding Daly - his best position may be 13, but at 15 there is more scope to be devastating in attack. I rate Daly so highly that I'd like to give him the best platform to hurt the opposition - hence my support for him being tried there on this tour.
I'm also keen to see the back of Brown. If I had to chose between a 13/15 combination of Joseph or Slade/Daly Or Daly/Brown I'd much prefer the first option.
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Re: South Africa v England part II

Beddis 16 Jun 2018 19:58 pm said..

What about the Ryan and Mallinder dream team??? :mrgreen:
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Re: South Africa v England part II

Fat Taff 16 Jun 2018 20:15 pm said..

Russglos wrote:I doubt it would ever happen but stay with me. Jones' team is not doing very well at the moment. What if he were to up anchor and I am not ignoring the financial impacts of a decision like that
for Jones, or England?
Who would/could take over?
Dean Ryan has been putting his mark on the set up of the younger teams.
Could he be drafted in to do a job?

Ryan has just sacked the hugely successful and respected u18s coaches. Putting down a mark?
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Re: South Africa v England part II

steckers 16 Jun 2018 20:19 pm said..

I suspect SA will rotate a number of players next week and Eng will get the win to relieve the pressure.
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Re: South Africa v England part II

Beddis 16 Jun 2018 21:25 pm said..

Mako Vunipola on the way home for personal reasons, should never have gone in the first place as he should have been resting on a beach somewhere
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Re: South Africa v England part II

TheOptimistSenior 16 Jun 2018 21:43 pm said..

[quote="Fat Taff" .....The starting English front 5 got smashed in the set piece and the loose. The contrast in the carrying effectiveness of the two front rows was stark. Decision making at 9,10,12 & 13 was way better by the Boks, and there skipper both played better, and made better calls than Farrell. Is it possible to be a Tier 1 side giving away 13 penalties and having one in the bin? Maro needs to stop all the pushing and shoving, back slapping and whooping and concentrate on his rugby. Jonny May was good, again,
Not sure what they'll do with the pack, but as far as the backs go, I'd try; 9 Robson, 10 Cips, 12 Lozowski, 13 Daly, 14 May, 11 Earle, 15 Brown.

This isn't a bad England side, but they've been playing badly for some months. There's plenty of talent, but Eddie seems hellbent on ignoring it, or putting players in daft positions.[/quote]

The English pack, not just the tight five, were totally eclipsed by the Boks pack after the first 15 minutes. Launchbury was good in the first half, but didn't get a look in, 2nd half.
If you can't compete upfront you won't win games and England didn't; even with a very talented back line (does that remind you of a certain English Premier team?), you will not win games. Add in the brainless penalties (Maki Vunipola and Hughes in particular, but Itoje consistently) and the unforced errors, then you don't have a hope in hell. Billy Vunipola is way short of fitness and shouldn't have been any where near this tour.
I don't have any strong feelings about the backs, although I would play Daly at 13 (his best position, I think) and Brown at 15 (I thought he had a good game today, despite a couple of dropped high kicks). If the pack dominate the tight contest and the breakdown, the backs will score tries.
Someone commented about players not smiling during games. They're not happy, and it shows. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark (apologies to Shakespeare), for Denmark, read England.
On todays showings, I'm very happy to have Mostert and Cipriani (the most talented 10 in world rugby, in my view) in Glaws colours next season.
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Re: South Africa v England part II

steckers 16 Jun 2018 21:48 pm said..

I hate to say it - and tin hat is firmly in place - I think the team misses Dylan Hartley when he isn't there.

Also Mako has been flogged to death. Itoje has been well below his best for a while. Hughes has never been good enough.

Genge would be nailed on for me - either starting or off the bench.

In the backs, 9 is a big issue - Spencer has to start and give Robson the last 30.

Whilst longer term I see Farrell at 10 - Cipriani has to start next week.
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Re: South Africa v England part II

King Prawn Bhuna 16 Jun 2018 22:11 pm said..

Thank you for mentioning Hughes....another lump that’s not fit or ambitious enough for the England shirt....just given it! He was poor for Wasps at Sarries in the play off and even worse for England.
Here's to the nights I'll never remember with the friends I'll never forget...
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Re: South Africa v England part II

Sheddy Mcshedface 16 Jun 2018 22:30 pm said..

My thoughts, good and bad.

The Good (This will be quick)

Jonny May is, so far, England's man of the series. 3 assists and 2 tries. Was gutted to see him leave but no one can say he hasn't come on leaps and bounds since joining Leicester. Has now cemented his place on the wing.

Franco Mostert will be a Gloucester player next season.

Not less than a year ago South African rugby was in the doldrums. Whilst it's not nice to be on the losing side having the Boks back as a competitive force is only good for the game.

The commentary cut out so we didn't have to listen to Stuart Barnes for the full 80.

The Bad

After last week's game everyone was on about improving discipline. Apparently no one told Mako! When our supposedly world class players can't keep their head what hope have we got?

Farrell as a player, yes. As captain? No! Hasn't got the temperament to keep refs on side. Give the armband to Launchbury.

Brown should be a full-back or not at all. Twice got the ball on the wing in space and showed a lack of pace to make anything happen. Poor under the high ball which was unusual for him.

Budget Vunipola, or Nathan Hughes as he prefers to be known, is not cutting it at this level. England need an alternative at 8 as BV can't be relied on to stay in one piece.

Hands made of bricks. As much as I hate to say it Wales handling against the Argies was outstanding. Check out Hallam Amos try if you didn't see it. We seemed to be playing with oven gloves on at times!
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Re: South Africa v England part II

Beddis 16 Jun 2018 22:56 pm said..

No Genge next week as he’s already home as his knee has gone
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