South Africa v England part II

Re: South Africa v England part II

Peanutcoxy 18 Jun 2018 10:11 am said..

Tim in Shropshire wrote:Wouldn't disagree with a word of this. Particularly the bit about flogging the players. Was really noticeable against Quins at the end of the season. Sinckler, in particular, could barely waddle off the pitch when he was substituted. Time for EJ to realise that less is almost always more
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... -world-cup

We can blame EJ for many things, and we do. However, fatigue is a combination of clubs, England, Lions tours etc and not just one man. And so the discussion again turns to player welfare, numbers of games, increased salaries, smaller squads, central contracts etc etc. There is no easy answer to this
The older I get the faster I was
Posts: 1601  Location: Brockworth
Peanutcoxy
Hall of Famer

Re: South Africa v England part II

Glawsterkaapie 18 Jun 2018 11:15 am said..

Sinkler can barely wobble when he's on the pitch from the word "go"....overrated chopsy little r"$t just happens to be playing for the right sort of team.....
Dwayne Vermeulen was head and shoulders above any of the English forwards and he's been playing in that physical minefield that is Top14 for the past few seasons....he doesn't look too knackered to me.....

Stop with the excuses : England were not good enough and could not raise their game for long enough periods to put away an average but becoming inspired Bokke.....

Hoping Cipriani gets to run the show from 10 in the 3rd test at Newlands, Robson gets a start at 9 and Woodward gets a solid 30 minutes from 11 or even 15
Posts: 206
Glawsterkaapie
Vice-Captain

Re: South Africa v England part II

JC 18 Jun 2018 15:18 pm said..

Glawsterkaapie wrote:Sinkler can barely wobble when he's on the pitch from the word "go"....overrated chopsy little r"$t just happens to be playing for the right sort of team.....
Dwayne Vermeulen was head and shoulders above any of the English forwards and he's been playing in that physical minefield that is Top14 for the past few seasons....he doesn't look too knackered to me.....

Stop with the excuses : England were not good enough and could not raise their game for long enough periods to put away an average but becoming inspired Bokke.....

Hoping Cipriani gets to run the show from 10 in the 3rd test at Newlands, Robson gets a start at 9 and Woodward gets a solid 30 minutes from 11 or even 15


Fair enough Kaapie,

Admittedly Vermuelen's been in France, but has only recently been recalled. Was he playing under Coetzee or in the wilderness as he'd signed for Toulon? My point is that he's only been playing for Toulon, with no Boks training or test match commitments added to that workload.

In contrast, the bulk of the England lads were involved with the Lions last year, came back and were straight back into action in the Premiership, then meeting for England training sessions and playing in the Six Nations. When you have a player of Johnny Sexton's calibre commenting that as he returned for his delayed preseason with Leinster (late September), due to his Lions commitments, he noted that Itoje and Farrell were already playing for Saracens.

After this final test, it'll be interesting to see how the Boks go in the Championship. The first two tests saw England easily open them up, before fading. I don't think the All Blacks will ease off the pedal, and the Boks limited game will be exposed. So, yep England haven't been good enough, but it's not necessarily excuses when you consider that player management is becoming a massive issue for the English premiership and national players.
Posts: 465  Location: North County Dublin, via The Longlevens Hood, Castle Grim and Old Richians...
JC
Vice-Captain

Re: South Africa v England part II

Not1eyed 18 Jun 2018 15:30 pm said..

At 2-0 down EJ must try some players on Saturday. My team would be:
Cipriani, Solomona, Daly, Slade, May, Farrell, Spencer, Simmonds, shields, Isecwe, Hill, Launchbury, Sinkler, Cowan-Dickie, Williams.
May as well try few things and lose.
Dan Robson on bench
Posts: 1610
Not1eyed
Hall of Famer

Re: South Africa v England part II

TOBIAS 18 Jun 2018 16:00 pm said..

What is the point of taking Cipriani, as a 10, then playing him at 15. He would do OK there but his talents are at 10. EJ should stick him in and see how it plays out - you cannot find out if someone fits the mould if you don`t play them in their real position. Methinks the problems however are in the 1-8 and we just haven`t the right balance there. It may be that we simply don`t have the players or we are picking the wrong ones. Just a thought or two
Posts: 673  Location: Sadly only Oxford now
TOBIAS
Hero in the making

Re: South Africa v England part II

Not1eyed 18 Jun 2018 16:13 pm said..

I totally agree Tobias but the Boks have clearly targeted Ford when attacking and they’ll do the same to cipriani. Farrell only 1 that could handle it. Also from 15 Cipriani get chance to see the game from the back and come into 1st receiver off 2nd or 3rd phase. Think he could be more dangerous that way.
We have been bullied up front. Missed Hartley badly I think. Got to give Hill a game in the 2nd row
Posts: 1610
Not1eyed
Hall of Famer

Re: South Africa v England part II

JC 18 Jun 2018 16:21 pm said..

TOBIAS wrote:What is the point of taking Cipriani, as a 10, then playing him at 15. He would do OK there but his talents are at 10. EJ should stick him in and see how it plays out - you cannot find out if someone fits the mould if you don`t play them in their real position. Methinks the problems however are in the 1-8 and we just haven`t the right balance there. It may be that we simply don`t have the players or we are picking the wrong ones. Just a thought or two


And this IS where EJ is falling down - playing players out of position for England, as did Lancaster. We had Itoje at 6 in the 6N’s, Robshaw at 7, then Brown on the wing in the Boks series. He needs to pick on form and merit and select based on position.

Here’s my 23, so use the squad EJ, use the squad!!!

Jason Woodward
Nathan Earle
Elliot Daly
Owen Farrell (C)
Johnny May
Danny Cipriani
Dan Robson

Nathan Hughes
Sam Simmonds (openside!)
Brad Shields
Johnny Hill
Joe Launchbury
Harry Williams
Jamie George
Joe Marler

Kyle Sinckler
Luke Cowan-Dickie
A N Other - Exeter Loosehead?
Mark Wilson
Ben Earl/Tom Curry
Ben Spencer
Alex Lozowski
Denny Solomona
Posts: 465  Location: North County Dublin, via The Longlevens Hood, Castle Grim and Old Richians...
JC
Vice-Captain

Re: South Africa v England part II

TheOptimistSenior 18 Jun 2018 16:28 pm said..

Agree with Tobias.
Start Cipriani at 10, not 15. If he can't handle the pressure from being targeted, and I think he would handle it, then have a system to avoid it. It seems to work with other fly halfs.
If I was DC and was taken on tour as a 10, on the basis of my club form this last season, and then given less than 10 minutes in a game already lost, and started at 15 in the final game, I'd be royally p*^^$d off.
Agree re Jonny Hill, nothing to lose and possibly start Dan Robson at 9 - he and Cipriani went well at Wasps, after all.
Last edited by TheOptimistSenior on 19 Jun 2018 08:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Posts: 392  Location: Mayhill Slopes
TheOptimistSenior
Vice-Captain

Re: South Africa v England part II

Not1eyed 18 Jun 2018 16:38 pm said..

All fair points and it’ll be interesting to see what EJ decides to do. I don’t think he will play Woodward. I also think, or hope, Cipriani would be happy to play wherever EJ asked him too.
Posts: 1610
Not1eyed
Hall of Famer

Re: South Africa v England part II

Beddis 18 Jun 2018 16:42 pm said..

Not1eyed wrote:All fair points and it’ll be interesting to see what EJ decides to do. I don’t think he will play Woodward. I also think, or hope, Cipriani would be happy to play wherever EJ asked him too.

Tight head? :mrgreen:
Posts: 3997  Location: Malahide, Co Dublin. Formerly Lydney
Beddis
Moderator
PreviousNext

Return to Gloucester Rugby

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Ken Burney and 11 guests