Cipriani Red Card

Re: Cipriani Red Card

Fat Taff 21 Oct 2018 15:41 pm said..

lucifer wrote:FT if that had been on a Munster player he would have noticed it, but wasn’t Billy the guilty party on another occasion? Just adds to your point really.


Yep, Billy should have had a red earlier. I genuinely think Riuz bottled that as he had just gone red with Cips.
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Re: Cipriani Red Card

mishmash 21 Oct 2018 15:59 pm said..

I listened to discussion of a red card between ref and TMO last year in a Pro14 game which concerned whether a forearm to a head contained 'force' and 'intent' and because both those criteria were met it warranted a red.

I assumed that if only one had been met it would have been yellow and neither just a pen. To me that seemed a common sense decision making process.

You could argue that yesterday there was neither intent nor force so if anything just a penalty and at worst a yellow if not getting lower could be considered intent.

At the moment it seems an absolute lottery which way a ref's going to go.
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Re: Cipriani Red Card

CMGC 21 Oct 2018 16:35 pm said..

What is baffling is that in the clip FT posted you can see that the incident was almost certainly in the refs full view from sideways on and yet he ignored it !!??!! Wgy. Was is due to no crown clamour or what. It is clearly far more direct than the Cips one. Personally I might have waved both by or possibly two pens but to do one as a red and the other as play on is indefensible.
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Re: Cipriani Red Card

Gloucester Mute 21 Oct 2018 18:10 pm said..

theoptimist wrote:Mute, Westy...a question or three...

a. Do you deny that there were errors made and shoulder to head clear-outs and tackles were missed over the course of the game?

b. Can you see that highlighting this is not a criticism of the ref, merely a statement of fact?

c. Can you empathise (or sympathise) with the frustration it causes some fans?

Perhaps we should use computers and special software that recognises head contacts...get rid of the 'human' element.

The ref was not the reason we lost the game. I don't think the calls he made were bad...although thought Savage was unlucky. I thought he communicated well. My issue is that once he'd drawn his line in the sand the rest of the game should have been officiated to that same standard. It wasn't.






There will always be some things missed in a fast-paced game. Some will be material and others not. If some that are dangerous are missed by ref/AR's/TMO then the Citing Officer will raise them. I certainly think the 2 incidents involving BTT will be reviewed and maybe cited. Not good for GRFC if BTT is cited !!

I most certainly can empathise/sympathise with fans' frustration. I think though that fans need to understand things from a referee's perspective. Blow non-stop and ruin a game ?? Allow immaterial things to happen ?? Try consistently cracking down on all acts of foul play ?? I would say "No", "Yes" and "No" and that is at the crux of the debate.

Hopefully the EPCR Citing Officer will make up for some of the perceived "misses" from Monsieur Ruiz BUT if they do methinks BTT will be missing for a few weeks...…..


If you can't concede that there wasn't consistency...(look at the video, look at the stills) then there is little hope for a sensible debate about things.
Nothing wrong with free speech or having an opinion - as long as it matches mine !!
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Re: Cipriani Red Card

Zyder 21 Oct 2018 19:48 pm said..

Just watched the BT Sport highlights. (13 min version)

The Savage yellow was mistaken identity IMO. The Munster player's head was knocked but not by Savage.

The DC red was...... discussed at length on Shedweb but

DC rubbed HIS face immediately after, suggesting that the Munster head made contact with his.

Appalling appealing by Munster at every opportunity.

But well done for not rolling over and getting panned.
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Re: Cipriani Red Card

GlawsyD 21 Oct 2018 20:27 pm said..

Zyder, you are correct that DC clutched his face after the collision, but was because he was caught by VRR 's head. I suspect that subconsciously, that played up the situation and made it look worse - certainly for the Munster supporters.
'He sent his men all over England' - William I Gloucester 1086
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Re: Cipriani Red Card

Zyder 21 Oct 2018 20:32 pm said..

Fair enough
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Re: Cipriani Red Card

vitesse 21 Oct 2018 20:44 pm said..

Zyder wrote:Just watched the BT Sport highlights. (13 min version)

The Savage yellow was mistaken identity IMO. The Munster player's head was knocked but not by Savage.

The DC red was...... discussed at length on Shedweb but

DC rubbed HIS face immediately after, suggesting that the Munster head made contact with his.

Appalling appealing by Munster at every opportunity.

But well done for not rolling over and getting panned.



Agreed - Savage's yellow, was the ref trying to stamp his mark on the game to make the players toe the line.

DC's red - cj clattered into him with no regard for his own safety.....

Appealing by mun...... not a word from the ref..... how many refs have we heared telling the players 'I'm the ref, stop the calling for everything or I WILL sanction, get on with the game'.... IMHO v poor reffing there....

Top job by the 14 left on field, no rolling over there, in fact alot of getting up and taking it to them.....

Just my opinion on the televised.......
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Re: Cipriani Red Card

SpiralScratch 21 Oct 2018 21:08 pm said..

Ironically I wonder if giving refs more latitude to use a yellow rather than red for 'accidental' high tackles might be more effective in clamping down on the dangerous ones - there are several instances from yesterdays game of high shots that weren't penalised, maybe the ref didn't see them or more liklely he didn't want to be dishing out multiple red cards. Yes that does suggest he 'bottled out' but on the other hand he wouldn't have got any thanks from anyone for reffing a game with half a dozen players in the sinbin for the duration. Yellows tend to cost the offending side at least a score, but they don't kill the game off like a red usually does.

NB He did a gave player a ticking off for excessive griping/appealing - Ben Vellacott . . .
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Re: Cipriani Red Card

CMGC 21 Oct 2018 21:56 pm said..

I quite understand your thinking here but if this is how a ref acted then is is unacceptable in the modern pro game. These games carry a lot of weight and importance. You can't start wielding a red card to let everyone know who is in charge and then decide to stop using it incase too many are sent off. The game was potentially ruined after the first red. WR made the guidelines for understandable reasons but they then must be followed or changed otherwise refs are put in the quite unreasonable position I have described.
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