Premiership ring-fencing

Re: Premiership ring-fencing

Sheddy Mcshedface 05 Dec 2018 12:24 pm said..

Wilkosam wrote:
covglaws wrote:2. Ealing Trailfinders - Ambitious owner, in illl health, certainly no where near ready in terms of ground or crowds.

Just thought I'd add to this from my understanding from someone I know very close to the club... They definitely want to come up - an article in the telegraph (unfortunately behind paywall) suggests they will take legal action if ring fencing is introduced. You're right they're definitely way off the mark in terms of crowds, but they own the ground and have the space to erect stands which would be befitting of a premiership club should this actually become a reality. It would seem that the owners have the appetite to do this given the way they've spent the money they have on the project already.


My understanding is that the children of the owner have no interest in continuing to fund a rugby club once the current owner passes on so unless they have taken steps to secure the long term investment regardless then this may be moot.
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Re: Premiership ring-fencing

covglaws 05 Dec 2018 12:25 pm said..

Sheddy Mcshedface wrote:Assume 11 is Hartpury?


Amended :)
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Re: Premiership ring-fencing

Sheddy Mcshedface 05 Dec 2018 12:27 pm said..

Interestingly Johan has come out largely supportive of ring fencing.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/s ... an-2293372
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Re: Premiership ring-fencing

Sheddy Mcshedface 05 Dec 2018 12:29 pm said..

covglaws wrote:
Sheddy Mcshedface wrote:Assume 11 is Hartpury?


Amended :)


Good work, Hartpury biggest barrier to ever considering promotion of course is the fact they have no where to draw local support from. The population of Hartpury is listed as 1,642 which wouldn't be enough to fill the shed, let alone support a top level premiership side.
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Re: Premiership ring-fencing

SonofPricey 05 Dec 2018 14:48 pm said..

Re Hartpury - that and the fact that they definitely don't want to get promoted!

Ealing have an average crowd of below 1,000. Their biggest gate of the season was just over 2,000 and that was against London Irish, whose supporters made up more than half of the crowd.

To suggest that any team, other than Irish could survive in the Premiership is utter nonsense. Also, it's funny how quickly promoted team owners suddenly start to think that relegation is a bad thing.
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Re: Premiership ring-fencing

Phill 05 Dec 2018 15:16 pm said..

SonofPricey wrote:To suggest that any team, other than Irish could survive in the Premiership is utter nonsense. Also, it's funny how quickly promoted team owners suddenly start to think that relegation is a bad thing.


If RFU payments and TV money was to be shared equally then why not..?
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Re: Premiership ring-fencing

ROLLO 05 Dec 2018 16:36 pm said..

I think that the CovGlos list broadly follows mine earlier in the thread. i.e.there is little potential that in the immediate term more than one or two could make the transition.
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Re: Premiership ring-fencing

SonofPricey 05 Dec 2018 17:00 pm said..

There in lies the problem - realistically there is only 13 teams that can compete anyway. Suspend relegation for 5 years. It allows the likes of Pirates, Carnegie and Coventry to sort out their grounds, finances and playing staff and then invite them to join in the fun. 16 team league, no pointless cup competition and Europe. If you wanted to make it interesting you could say top 4 playoff to win the title; top 6 qualify for Heineken Cup; 7th - 12th qualify for Challenge Cup; Bottom 4 no European Rugby. They get less fixtures the following season, but have an increased salary cap for 2 seasons.

There are plenty of ways to keep things interesting and avoid too many dead rubbers. Let's be honest this is looking like the first season in a while where the relegated team wasn't known before Xmas. Plenty of pointless games in the London Welsh and previous Bristol season. If a side is routinely rubbish (say over a 5 year period) the league can vote to replace them with new Championship side.

Minimum criteria for all clubs in the Premiership that must be adhered to by the beginning of 2024-25 season could be:

Minimum stadium capacity of 10,000 (of which 75% needs to be seated) and all covered.
75% of playing staff must be English qualified.
Formal tie up with a Championship side or National One side.
Club must have Women's team as part of set-up, with aim to be Professional by end of decade.
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Re: Premiership ring-fencing

Camel 05 Dec 2018 17:23 pm said..

SonofPricey wrote:There in lies the problem - realistically there is only 13 teams that can compete anyway. Suspend relegation for 5 years. It allows the likes of Pirates, Carnegie and Coventry to sort out their grounds, finances and playing staff and then invite them to join in the fun. 16 team league, no pointless cup competition and Europe. If you wanted to make it interesting you could say top 4 playoff to win the title; top 6 qualify for Heineken Cup; 7th - 12th qualify for Challenge Cup; Bottom 4 no European Rugby. They get less fixtures the following season, but have an increased salary cap for 2 seasons.

There are plenty of ways to keep things interesting and avoid too many dead rubbers. Let's be honest this is looking like the first season in a while where the relegated team wasn't known before Xmas. Plenty of pointless games in the London Welsh and previous Bristol season. If a side is routinely rubbish (say over a 5 year period) the league can vote to replace them with new Championship side.

Minimum criteria for all clubs in the Premiership that must be adhered to by the beginning of 2024-25 season could be:

Minimum stadium capacity of 10,000 (of which 75% needs to be seated) and all covered.
75% of playing staff must be English qualified.
Formal tie up with a Championship side or National One side.
Club must have Women's team as part of set-up, with aim to be Professional by end of decade.


This right here is the main flaw in your argument. I believe that the impact to those clubs, in not being able to secure promotion, both in terms of support and financially in that 5 year period could mean they are not able to progress as they would be otherwise. You could end up almost writing the Championship off entirely.

Why not simply increase the Prem to 13, but retain relegation and promotion (if the promoted club is ready). That way, you’re not damaging either league but you get a similar outcome.
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Re: Premiership ring-fencing

Asgard 05 Dec 2018 17:30 pm said..

Let's face it - you either for ring-fencing or against it and I doubt that anyonewill be swayed either way by discussions such as this forum. A bit like Brexit.
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