Ring fencing decision

Re: Ring fencing decision

stuartjames 07 Feb 2019 14:42 pm said..

SoP, with that argument, Hartpury should still be in Gloucester Three North then ?
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Re: Ring fencing decision

Blueboot 07 Feb 2019 14:58 pm said..

When the two most recent agreements between RFU and PRL were being negotiated there was talk about breakaways, ring fencing ,playoffs, moratoria etc.The RFU were against it then and are against it now. The RFU council is the decision making body As previously mentioned its not in the interest of the game. It's purely the self interest of 13 clubs and CVC.
The Championship is owned and run by the RFU and the widening of playing standards between the leagues is down to some pretty poor management, funding and marketing by the owners.They are not really interested.Why then did they "buy out" the old FDR ltd in 2009 which was the Champioships equivalent of PRL?
The answer is to have an insurance policy and counter strategy in the event of a breakaway by PRL.Their was also a well developed strategy which included central contracts for England players who would be loaned out to Championship clubs. A large marketing campaign to grow the Championship backed by a satellite TV station was also sketched out.The RFU also planned a non selection policy for any player who renewed a contract with a breakaway club.(Similar to the Welsh policy).At the time the IRB (now World Rugby) was fully supportive of the RFU and was discussing a non selection policy for any player joining a breakaway club.
Fortunately a negotiated agreement was reached which avoided a schism in our game which would have hurt all parties in the short term.
So PRL may think that control of the EQ Players is a strong hand and clearly their offensive has been swallowed by some but if PRL "up the ante" then the RFU will be dusting off those strategies and we could be in for an interesting period in English Rugby.PRL will also be reluctant to have their legal status ,cartel like behaviour ,share structure examined in a court of law.
For the reference of Glen Sannox (See earlier post) Cnut the elder (I've been called worse!) also known as Canute was not trying to "stop the tide" but seeking to demonstrate the fallability of those with delusions of power.A metafor for our times perhaps.
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Re: Ring fencing decision

Sue D'Nimes 07 Feb 2019 15:07 pm said..

The RFU are in a difficult position. If CVC are to get their money's worth the Prem has to be their jewel. If they get rid of relegation then as with PRO 14, clubs can ignore the prem and focus on Europe. This does not play out well for CVC. The only way to make money from rugby's existing audience is to take the current International Bonanza, where the RFU makes all it's money and leverage that. It could easily end up in a European breakaway super franchise league backed by CVC with the RFU firefighting and putting an England team out from the Championship. This may kill the golden goose but could be a phoenix moment. There would be a few years of pain with England falling down the rankings but we might end up with a centrally contracted situation similar to Ireland which may be seen as the only way for England to remain competitive anyway.
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Re: Ring fencing decision

SonofPricey 07 Feb 2019 15:52 pm said..

stuartjames wrote:SoP, with that argument, Hartpury should still be in Gloucester Three North then ?


Not sure how you got that from my post to be honest.

Hartpury have done very well to get to the Championship - but even they are struggling to compete financially at this level. They certainly don't want or even would consider any further promotion. Neither do the vast majority of the Championship. Until that changes there is no point in promotion or relegation.

Look at the facts and the stats - they paint a very clear picture. Only clubs with a long term plan (realistically over 10 years) will survive at the top table. Bristol, Worcester and Leeds all bounced up and down on a regular basis and the former two are struggling this year. What teams looking for promotion need is certainty and stability. If a club really wanted to join the Premiership they will need to fulfill minimum standards for the ground, training facilities, sustainability (in income away from rugby) and setting up an academy. It takes time and lots and lots of money.

Cornish Pirates apparently want to be promoted - but they have no stadium, their TOTAL attendance last season was 16,715 in the Championship. To put that in perspective, the lowest total attendance last season in the Premiership was Sale with 69,015. No work has even started yet on the fabled 'Stadium for Cornwall'.
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornw ... ss-2512036

What about Ealing Trailfinders, the other club held out as an example of a possible future promotion candidate? Well their total attendance was 8,955! (with an average of 814!). The amount of investment needed to increase the capacity, attract any sort of fan base will be huge for both sides - how many banks are going to lend the money required knowing that the whole lot will likely be for nought in 12 months time?

Coventry, probably will be the next genuine contender - but again the stadium is not up to scratch (basically one stand, impressive as it may be). They will be competing directly with Wasps. Is there enough demand in Coventry and the West Midlands for three Premiership sides (if we include Worcester)?

The RFU will not start picking players from the Championship. The majority of their income is generated by Internationals and a successful England team. People will not watch England getting thumped by Italy to keep relegation!
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Re: Ring fencing decision

Sheddy Mcshedface 07 Feb 2019 15:56 pm said..

There has been a lot of speculation about a potential European Super League coming along but all that would do is ruin the special nature of what is currently Heineken Cup fixtures.

Games like Gloucester vs Munster, Newcastle vs Toulon and Bath vs Toulose are only stand out games because they have to be earned through qualifying to europe in the first place and then the luck of the draw.

If these become regular fixtures then they will lose that sense of occasion.
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Re: Ring fencing decision

Asgard 07 Feb 2019 16:01 pm said..

Sheddy Mcshedface wrote:There has been a lot of speculation about a potential European Super League coming along but all that would do is ruin the special nature of what is currently Heineken Cup fixtures.

Games like Gloucester vs Munster, Newcastle vs Toulon and Bath vs Toulose are only stand out games because they have to be earned through qualifying to europe in the first place and then the luck of the draw.

If these become regular fixtures then they will lose that sense of occasion.


So you would rather have "sense of occasion" than a higher standard of rugby!!!?
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Re: Ring fencing decision

Peanutcoxy 07 Feb 2019 16:29 pm said..

I was firmly in the promotion and relegation camp because of the genuine belief that all clubs have to have the hope of attaining the best possible level. However, having read the many arguments for and against, I tend to now favour ringfencing. Not because I want the greedy and self-interested owners of the GP to line their own pockets and maintain a ‘stuff everyone else’ attitude. SoP has laid out before us the problems that exist now and in the medium and short term for championship clubs ((LI excluded) and, although one may succeed in the next 10 years, it is very unlikely. The Exeter argument is often rolled out but that was 8 years ago and the financial landscape has changed dramatically even in that short time.
I hate the idea of ringfencing as it extinguishes dreams and aspirations. However, in the real world, there doesn’t appear to be a viable alternative.
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Re: Ring fencing decision

Sheddy Mcshedface 07 Feb 2019 16:30 pm said..

Asgard wrote:
Sheddy Mcshedface wrote:There has been a lot of speculation about a potential European Super League coming along but all that would do is ruin the special nature of what is currently Heineken Cup fixtures.

Games like Gloucester vs Munster, Newcastle vs Toulon and Bath vs Toulose are only stand out games because they have to be earned through qualifying to europe in the first place and then the luck of the draw.

If these become regular fixtures then they will lose that sense of occasion.


So you would rather have "sense of occasion" than a higher standard of rugby!!!?


I am happy that the Premiership and Heineken Cup in their current formats deliver both those things.
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Re: Ring fencing decision

lucifer 07 Feb 2019 16:57 pm said..

SoP, your assertion that the “vast majority “ of Championship teams do not want to be promoted is contradicted by the howls of outrage the possibility of ring fencing produced in those very clubs - indeed clubs in lower leagues too. What does it matter if clubs get relegated, their disappointment is evened out by the satisfaction of those promoted, and the “vast majority “ of teams relegated from the PL have been promoted again either immediately or at a later stage. That’s what sport is about and long may it continue.
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Re: Ring fencing decision

Asgard 07 Feb 2019 18:01 pm said..

Lucifer, I believe that professional sport is now about money - if you have the cash you'll reach the top echelon.
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