RWC19 "Stuff"

Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

stuartjames 04 Nov 2019 10:26 am said..

As an attempt to move on from 'medalgate' I see it looks likely EJ will be staying until 2023. I can't see a particular reason to move him out, but I was somewhat surprised he made such a mess of his squad selection given this was his 4th WC.

The standout mistake of only taking two No9s really came to light in the final, with Willi out injured he had little choice leaving Youngs on the field despite his fairly poor performance and his obvious worry with throwing on Ben Spencer, after so little time in Japan. With hindsight flogging Billy V to exhaustion and only taking 5 props but a few too many centres (Piers Francis anyone?) also stand out as misguided.

How much game time did Ellis Genge , Jack Singleton and McConnochie get ? The risk of picking Nowell also backfired.
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Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

steckers 04 Nov 2019 10:36 am said..

Sorry Stuart - I don't agree with that. Every squad has players that don't feature much so I think you are reading too much into that.

Taking 2 9s was always a risk - I'm not sure it backfired though. The final was lost up front in a very decisive manner. Whilst Youngs didn't play well, I'm not sure any scrum half could do too much with the ball he had.

Sometimes you are just beaten by a better team on the day.
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Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

Allez Glaws 04 Nov 2019 10:38 am said..

stuartjames wrote:As an attempt to move on from 'medalgate' I see it looks likely EJ will be staying until 2023. I can't see a particular reason to move him out, but I was somewhat surprised he made such a mess of his squad selection given this was his 4th WC.

The standout mistake of only taking two No9s really came to light in the final, with Willi out injured he had little choice leaving Youngs on the field despite his fairly poor performance and his obvious worry with throwing on Ben Spencer, after so little time in Japan. With hindsight flogging Billy V to exhaustion and only taking 5 props but a few too many centres (Piers Francis anyone?) also stand out as misguided.

How much game time did Ellis Genge , Jack Singleton and McConnochie get ? The risk of picking Nowell also backfired.


I think that's very good analysis. Could have been in an even worse state for the final if we'd have played the france game and got any more injuries
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Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

stuartjames 04 Nov 2019 10:59 am said..

Steckers, EJ repeatedly said Billy V needed to be playing to maintain his form but he looked jaded in the final, especially compared with the semi.

I understand some players get less game time, but I think EJ got the balance wrong in his initial selection and by not playing some of the squad players in the easier pool games. Wilson looked good when he came on, he's not played much over the last 6/7 weeks.

Francis and McConnochie both had limited if any game time and we could have done with another No9 in the squad.

Nowell was injured when he got selected, had an appendix operation in the meantime, and then got injured again in his one appearance. I'm not convinced he was ever match fit at any point in say the last 2/3 months.

Other than Billy V none of these would have helped against a vastly superior SA side on Saturday, but for a coach in his 4th WC they do seem a bit strange to me.
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Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

Castle Grim Reaper 04 Nov 2019 11:06 am said..

Clive Woodward stated after the game that after four years to prepare England went into the game with a first team and eight injury replacements as opposed to SA who had a bench full of top class options, I tend to agree with him.
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Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

King Prawn Bhuna 04 Nov 2019 12:13 pm said..

I didn't hear anyone going on about the squad selections being poor after semifinal? The only concern at that point was Heinz...so I'm not convinced any of that stacks up. Dan Cole for virtually the whole match was the major problem.
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Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

Paul Simmons 04 Nov 2019 12:33 pm said..

This is fun isn't it.

Let's hope Eddie gets it as hopelessly wrong next time. I'm looking forward to all bonus point group wins and comfortably beating Australia and outplaying the ABs. Hopefully we won't need to do the Southern Hemisphere Grand slam on three consecutive weekends though.
Last edited by Paul Simmons on 04 Nov 2019 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

stuartjames 04 Nov 2019 12:39 pm said..

Pretty hard to predict after the semi-final that Billy V would be too knackered to have much impact in the final!

Erasmus has stated that the 6+2 split on the subs bench made his job a whole lot easier as he had 2 sets of world class front five forwards and that they all played significantly less than the same England players, hence he thought they'd be a lot less tired for the final., but he only won the thing, so what would he know.

Also given EJ's stated aim was to win the World Cup, and he failed to do that, some sort of analysis is surely valid.?

I started by saying he's probably the best option going forward, I'm not suggesting he gets the sack, but what will England learn if they don't analyse the campaign and their failure to win.
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Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

Noobs 04 Nov 2019 13:04 pm said..

I can’t remember such an attritional tournament, so many 1st choice players either injured or looking exhausted. Even without the France game England were battered and bruised by the final.

Definitely an argument for a rest in between the group games and knockouts, and maybe a further rest between the semis and the final. Admittedly the tournament would go on forever but at least it wouldn’t destroy the players.

SA were completely ruthless and thoroughly deserved their win. Their 7 was immense.
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Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

Up the jumper 04 Nov 2019 13:27 pm said..

Noobs wrote:I can’t remember such an attritional tournament, so many 1st choice players either injured or looking exhausted. Even without the France game England were battered and bruised by the final.

Definitely an argument for a rest in between the group games and knockouts, and maybe a further rest between the semis and the final. Admittedly the tournament would go on forever but at least it wouldn’t destroy the players.

SA were completely ruthless and thoroughly deserved their win. Their 7 was immense.


Completely disagree. The point of a tournament is to test the squad, and not the team. The England squad really wasn't used effectively. Initial selection had some structure issues (eg only 2 nines), some form issues (eg Nowell), but little bad luck - the only significant instance being the injury to Sinkler. That last point was the most significant - forcing Coles to play 78 minutes meant he couldn't go 100% so that further weakened the scrum. But, virtually no prop in the modern game can play a whole match. Sadly, tho, it wasn't just the scrum that was dominated - virtually every aspect of the game was. It's not just about the matchday 23 - and if players were tired then that is down to not fully using the squad available.
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