RWC19 "Stuff"

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Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

04 Nov 2019 13:28 pm:

Never been a fan of EJ but he got us to the final so I think he deserves another go at the job IF he wants it, Clive Woodward did it on his second go IIRC so perhaps EJ will learn from what he considers in hindsight to be mistakes and builds his squad for the next world cup starting now, some of those younger players will have learnt a huge amount from the last two weeks but perhaps EJ needs to give more time to the fringe players than he did before and stop bringing in foreign drop ins that prove a waste of time( to be fair that might have been forced on him by the RFU)
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Location: West Oxfordshire

Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

04 Nov 2019 13:31 pm:

Noobs wrote:SA were completely ruthless and thoroughly deserved their win. Their 7 was immense.

Yup. Worked out that England's weaknesses were in the scrum and in their high-ball defense at the back and they picked away at both of them repeatedly. Almost tediously.

And yes, PSdT has left me with PTSD. Lord knows how the England pack feel.
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Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

04 Nov 2019 13:45 pm:

S.A. used their squad better than England. Don't forget that they played one more game than England and had one day less to recover from the semi to the final.

Erasmus outhought and outwitted Jones in the final.

England lacks strength in depth in a few key positions such as 3, 8, 9 and 15 - partially due to Jones not giving relevant experience. For example, it was asking a lot of Willi Heinz to play in a RWC with so little international experience.
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Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

04 Nov 2019 14:11 pm:

My point was, had EJ taken a 3rd choice 9 in the squad, I don't think there would've been any difference to the outcome. Injuries are part of the game - he was able to call up another 9 who has played plenty of international games this year so I don't really see an issue.

I understand that he could have taken 1 less winger. I just don't see it being that critical to anything.

England had a fantastic tournament which included one of the best performances I have watched -certainly since 2003. The final was one game too far - but all these nit-pickings are unwarranted. I don't recall reading them before the final. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Vice-Captain
Posts: 212

Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

04 Nov 2019 14:25 pm:

Up the jumper wrote:
Noobs wrote:I can’t remember such an attritional tournament, so many 1st choice players either injured or looking exhausted. Even without the France game England were battered and bruised by the final.

Definitely an argument for a rest in between the group games and knockouts, and maybe a further rest between the semis and the final. Admittedly the tournament would go on forever but at least it wouldn’t destroy the players.

SA were completely ruthless and thoroughly deserved their win. Their 7 was immense.


Completely disagree. The point of a tournament is to test the squad, and not the team. The England squad really wasn't used effectively. Initial selection had some structure issues (eg only 2 nines), some form issues (eg Nowell), but little bad luck - the only significant instance being the injury to Sinkler. That last point was the most significant - forcing Coles to play 78 minutes meant he couldn't go 100% so that further weakened the scrum. But, virtually no prop in the modern game can play a whole match. Sadly, tho, it wasn't just the scrum that was dominated - virtually every aspect of the game was. It's not just about the matchday 23 - and if players were tired then that is down to not fully using the squad available.


Respect the view but I disagree, I want to see the best players from each country playing against each other, not whoever can survive the tournament. If it is about attrition then let teams take more players. Again taking nothing away from South Africas win.

Regarding England, I'd like to see the World cup players given a rest from premiership games until Christmas and arguably say that if they played in the semis or in the final, they cannot be picked in the 6N. Force some new blood into the team and take some pressure off players who looked physically and mentally beaten.
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Posts: 472

Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

04 Nov 2019 14:37 pm:

Not sure anyone can slate Jones after he took us to a World Cup final in the manner he has, up until 11 am on Saturday morning the mood in the country was emphatic, Jones deserves huge praise for this. Sure he got some things wrong, but he’s only human. Did anyone realistically expect us to reach the final? I didn’t, I hoped we’d beat the all blacks but I didn’t believe we would. We’ve exceeded expectations and yet it hurts like hell to not win.

Let’s not do the typical English thing of over analysing it and calling for peoples heads, we are in a good place, we lost ONE GAME. It sucks and I’m definitely still hurting, but I’m refusing to be all doom and gloom about it
Hall of Famer
Posts: 2270

Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

04 Nov 2019 15:28 pm:

I completely agree with Steckers and kentishglaws. Everyone is an expert with 20/20 hindsight.
Well done Eddie and England.
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Posts: 1693
Location: Belgium

Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

04 Nov 2019 15:37 pm:

That's a very fatalist attitude; you can't see anyway it which England could have been better prepared , or anything they could have done differently which may have resulted in them winning ? The SA team was just too big and strong and nasty on the day and there's nothing we could have done about it.?
Turns out for the A team
Posts: 44

Re: RWC19 "Stuff"

04 Nov 2019 16:02 pm:

EJ came into the England set up when they were in a dreadful place and the expectations were low. He would probably have liked the expectations to have risen slowly, giving him breathing space to achieve his publicised ambition of having three world class players in each position come the Japan world cup.

Instead, the England players who had failed at their own world cup confounded everybody's expectations and won the Grand Slam 4 months later. From then on, Eddie had lost a lot of the opportunity to bring in new blood, at the expence of a few results, because his paymasters and the English supporters expected continual glory.

Well done South Africa, and rassie Erasmus, for a brilliant performance on the day; also, well done England for a great tournament performance. Let's now give Eddie the luxury of allowing him to lose a couple of 6N tournaments, and a mediocre AI series next year, so that he can find his three world class players for each position (if they exist).

I'm probably hoping for the impossible, as it's not really the knowledgeable, week in week out rugby, supporters who put the pressure on the national team; it's the twice a year AI and 6N, look at me I'm Twickenham man, know nothings, who will be calling for his head at the first sign of this team not performing to the standard of the semi-final v the ABs.
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