Prem or Europe

Prem or Europe

focus on league position
82
90%
Focus on European cup
9
10%
 
Total votes : 91

Re: Prem or Europe

Oldprop 13 Jan 2019 16:46 pm said..

The lack of promotion relegation for Irish teams isn't really the key issue IMHO. Their trump card is having squads big enough to be able to rest players, and being able to find the money to fund those squads. Even if we ring fenced the prem, the top clubs, i.e. the ones with any chance of winning in Europe, will still want to fight for the English title. But they won't have any more money to fund a bigger squad, so nothing will change. Presumably the hope is that CVC will find ways to generate enough income for a higher salary cap, perhaps linked to a minimum squad size. I can't see any other way of levelling the European playing field.
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Re: Prem or Europe

CMGC 13 Jan 2019 17:05 pm said..

I think the RFU have to bring in a realistic " max number of games in 10 months " rule. At the moment it is still ridiculously high and almost no player has a chance of getting to it and if they did they would be properly kackered. If the limit was say 1600 hrs which s closer to where the Irish players are. ( many Munster lads have done about 750 mins so far and we are half way through) . The prem teams can then decide to mix and match everyone up to the limit or have bigger squads or whatever they like. That way players safety is protected and teams will have more rested players.
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Re: Prem or Europe

Number10 13 Jan 2019 17:19 pm said..

Oldprop wrote:The lack of promotion relegation for Irish teams isn't really the key issue IMHO. Their trump card is having squads big enough to be able to rest players, and being able to find the money to fund those squads. Even if we ring fenced the prem, the top clubs, i.e. the ones with any chance of winning in Europe, will still want to fight for the English title. But they won't have any more money to fund a bigger squad, so nothing will change. Presumably the hope is that CVC will find ways to generate enough income for a higher salary cap, perhaps linked to a minimum squad size. I can't see any other way of levelling the European playing field.


Saracens have won the European cup over the last few years so I don’t think the Irish sides are there far ahead of us. I think the big difference is the number of sides. The Irish teams will have more internationals as they only have 3/4 major sides.
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Re: Prem or Europe

Oldprop 13 Jan 2019 17:56 pm said..

True, but Sarries seemed to have a strangely strong squad in relation to the salary cap :D
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Re: Prem or Europe

Northerner 13 Jan 2019 18:22 pm said..

Don't really see how promotion/relegation vs ring-fencing makes a difference in Europe to be honest. It affects lower-table Premiership/higher-table Championship teams, teams that don't get into the Champions Cup to begin with. What England is struggling with is the step between mid- and higher-table. A crowded field between third and ninth, but nobody keeping Saracens/Exeter honest.

I think this is partly because Saracens and Exeter stockpile a significant portion of the brightest English talent, and the rest is diluted across the rest of the Premiership. As a country, we are failing to produce enough high-end talent to go around the clubs. So compared to Pro14 teams, we're struggling in the player development department, and compared to Top14 teams, we're struggling in the financial department.
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Re: Prem or Europe

Fat Taff 13 Jan 2019 18:23 pm said..

Oldprop wrote:True, but Sarries seemed to have a strangely strong squad in relation to the salary cap :D


Seven players in todays starting side came through the Sarries academy.
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Re: Prem or Europe

Asgard 13 Jan 2019 18:43 pm said..

Well I'm sad that our European campaign is over because it offered excellent excuses for losing. Munster are used to European Rugby because as we all know it's played under a completely different set of laws and with a completely different shaped ball to that used in The Challenge Cup which has caused us to have bad habits. Beating Exeter away according to one Shedwebber earned us a feather in our cap.
Back in the real world I always thought that when you played rugby you always wanted to win whether it be pre-season, league, domestic cup or european so in my book concentrating on league or cup is not the real issue.
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Re: Prem or Europe

Oldprop 13 Jan 2019 19:56 pm said..

Fat Taff wrote:
Oldprop wrote:True, but Sarries seemed to have a strangely strong squad in relation to the salary cap :D


Seven players in todays starting side came through the Sarries academy.

So eight didn't :)

Seriously though, I'm just trying to understand where we are. Sarries are clearly the most successful English side at the moment. On the other hand they have debts of £45m. Is that the price of success? I honestly don't know, but it's obvious that we don't have a big enough squad to fight on two fronts even though we are spending up to the cap (I think).
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Re: Prem or Europe

Number10 13 Jan 2019 20:12 pm said..

Oldprop wrote:
Fat Taff wrote:
Oldprop wrote:True, but Sarries seemed to have a strangely strong squad in relation to the salary cap :D


Seven players in todays starting side came through the Sarries academy.

So eight didn't :)

Seriously though, I'm just trying to understand where we are. Sarries are clearly the most successful English side at the moment. On the other hand they have debts of £45m. Is that the price of success? I honestly don't know, but it's obvious that we don't have a big enough squad to fight on two fronts even though we are spending up to the cap (I think).


I think it will take a while but we will get there. Saracens and Exeter to a lesser extent can bring new players in who seamlessly fall into place. Probably due to a long line of continuity in coaching which is passed throughout the whole club.

I know there is lots of talk about Saracens and the cap but it really is amazing the amount of players that come through their academy and become almost instant successes when they come into the first team. We are getting there we’ve had polledri and Ludlow last season and thorley.

We have also been unlucky with key injuries this season hooker, 9 and 10 being key positions.
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Re: Prem or Europe

covglaws 14 Jan 2019 12:48 pm said..

Fat Taff wrote:
Oldprop wrote:True, but Sarries seemed to have a strangely strong squad in relation to the salary cap :D


Seven players in todays starting side came through the Sarries academy.


Still payed an academy wage, are they? Just saying. ;)
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